The Sports Podcast for Moms That Hits "Like Nipple Cream"

Everyone keeps saying women’s sports are having a moment. But it’s more than that. On and off the court, women’s sports are changing culture, conversations, and even our personal style. For Marie Claire’s Women in Sports series, we talk to the athletes, executives, and industry vets who are at the top of their game.

The first thing you should know is that ANDMOM isn’t that kind of parenting podcast. When Skylar Diggins, a seven-time WNBA All-Star, and Cassidy Hubbarth, a celebrated sports journalist, teamed up to launch the show, they knew they wanted something different.

“There's a lot of parenting podcasts out there trying to tell you how to do the right things for your kids,” Hubbarth says. But with their podcast, the pair wanted to create a place that felt specifically for mothers. Think of it “like a nipple cream” Diggins adds. Which is to say: a place where mothers can take a breath, sit back, and feel relief in the company of other women who are sharing similar experiences.

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While the podcast’s guests are all athletes—Olympic gymnast Shawn Johnson discussing postpartum recovery; WNBA legend Lisa Leslie sharing details of her C-section—Diggins and Hubbarth believe any mother listening will find experiences that they can relate to, especially when it comes to the intersection of ambition and motherhood. Here, they share what else listeners can expect to hear.

What inspired you both to launch ANDMOM?

Cassidy Hubbarth: The idea for ANDMOM really just came from realizing how many women—especially women in demanding and visible careers—are carrying these huge emotional shifts around motherhood, oftentimes quietly. When our executive producer, Christine, brought this idea to me—Sky was brought on first—it immediately hit home. The big thing is that we wanted to try and have conversations that felt less filtered, more human.

What interested me wasn't just motherhood itself; it was basically the collision between motherhood and identity. I think that's what we really want this podcast to be: It's people exploring what their identity is before parenthood, during parenthood, during pregnancy, all of that, and what that means. I think women are oftentimes exhausted by perfection narratives, so I think the point of this podcast is the nuance. The nuance is the point, and that's where the passion for this podcast lies.

Skylar Diggins: To add onto that, I think when you're starting to explore these spaces, we never really have had access to these conversations, as far as the juxtaposition of motherhood and our lives in the sports world. And so, it really was also about what we weren't hearing, either. You know, sometimes you do feel isolated.

Where did the title of the podcast come from?

SD: Well, motherhood just kind of always seems like an asterisk, doesn't it? We'll say all these other things that we are, and then it's like, And I'm a mom. We say it so casually.

And it's like, no, I'm a translator, I'm a navigator, I'm a chauffeur, I'm a chef, I'm the doctor sometimes. So motherhood can feel like an asterisk at times, but it's also so many things that we embody.

CH: Yeah, and I think what Sky said, it's like, you see, I'm a leader, I'm an Olympian, I’m a seven-time All-Star—I'm not saying my credentials, I'm saying Sky's credentials—but I’m a mom. So I also feel like it’s shining a light on the struggle with identifying with that. As mothers, you can deeply love motherhood, but also still grieve the parts of your old identity sometimes, like I'm a mom, and I'm so much more than just one identity.

You mentioned that there were conversations around motherhood you felt we weren’t having, especially around identity and ambition. What conversations do you think are missing?

SD: I think it’s more about we don’t limit, you know? We talk about the IVF process and all the factors that come into that; we talk about having a doula, midwifery, we walk through all of those options. We’ve talked about tearing; some of these topics that I haven't just heard casually talked about in that scope.

It's amazing when you feel comfortable, and you feel vulnerable enough to share some of these experiences, what you learn woman to woman. It's all about perspective. To hear about mom guilt and giving people grace and telling people to give grace to themselves—it's just amazing to see and to hear about all the stories and the journeys, while also navigating once-in-a-lifetime careers for all of our guests.

CH: Parenthood, and particularly motherhood, can be very lonely at times. There's a lot of voices in your head, but sometimes you need to hear outside voices identify something that you may be going through. We interviewed Brittney Griner, and we talked to her about her IVF journey and picking a donor for their baby, what that was like, and how she thought it was only going to be lesbian couples in the waiting room. She was like, ‘Oh, straight couples go through this too.’

I've used these situations to help my own battle—having an only child because of my issues with being able to get pregnant again—and it helps me hear other people's stories, their struggles, and how they've overcome it.

SD: We have these conversations and these topics are really not cherry-picked. We have these things that we want to cover, but we really don't steer too much. We really allow it to be driven by whoever we're talking to. It’s really conversational. Our guests are sharing, and that's what the space is about, that vulnerability and being able to feel safe in those spaces.

How did motherhood impact your own careers, and your sense of identity and ambition?

SD: I had my son in 2019. I was playing for the Dallas Wings at the time. I got pregnant that summer and I played through that summer—I actually led the league in minutes that summer. It's just insane to think about. But that was seven years ago; I was younger then and in the prime of my career. Our CBA [collective bargaining agreement]—all our rules and regulations and standards that are written between the league and the players; that's what we were fighting for this year, to get increased salaries and increased revenue share and we got a new one—back then didn't have any protections if you got pregnant, so I didn't say anything about my pregnancy. I didn't tell anybody on the team, coaches, medical staff, or teammates, that I was pregnant. I played through the year.

I had a horrible first trimester. I’d throw up before practice, while playing in games, but I didn't say anything. I could potentially be at risk as far as missing out on money; you could get half your money.

Eventually, we put in a Skylar Clause in our CBA, and it was to protect the mothers, who when you're pregnant, get guaranteed money if you're promised that. You get all the money that you're owed, and then as far as resources and things like that, providing a room, a space to pump, because I was breastfeeding my son, like, in the locker room.

I feel blessed that I was able to do that. I sat out a maternity year with my daughter, but I felt like I got to see the league from a different lens, you know, as a mother and what that meant, and how I could impact the league as far as what was missing for resources for women and childbearing people.

That definitely changed my perspective, having kids, having them at the peak of my career, navigating, bouncing back, and how I could affect the league from that perspective.

CH: Another constant theme that keeps coming up is that our peak fertility years are the same as our peak performance years. Sky missed out on two years of her peak performance years; it's a little different when I explain my peak performance years. I did feel like my career, right before I had my daughter, was in a fast-moving, forward, evolving point. I was scared out of my mind once I got pregnant. I think I was overwhelmed with emotions to the point where I hid my pregnancy, because I was scared of how becoming a mother would be perceived by my bosses.

I was trying to control everything, because everything up until that point, it was my career, my husband, my career, just keep one foot in front of the other. And then, knowing that I was pregnant, and what it was doing to my mind, body, and soul—everything was out of control.

My pregnancy was fairly easy physically, but mentally, I put myself through the wringer. I only knew my life before motherhood. I didn't yet understand, becoming a mom wouldn't erase all of that. It would deepen who I was, and my understanding of what was most important helped me prioritize, but it definitely took a while to kind of center myself.

Given that the premise of the podcast is unfiltered conversations, how did you both decide how much of your personal experiences you felt comfortable sharing?

CH: Both Sky and I were pretty private in terms of sharing pictures or videos of our children. We both grew up in the social media era and we've seen a lot over the years—the benefits of social media and some of the dangers of it. What we try to do is just protect our children's digital footprint. I'm someone who feels like we're on the verge of a privacy revolution and I don't want to put my daughter's face out there. I'm very selective in what I share in terms of visuals.

It's interesting, me being a reporter, because a lot of it is based on what kind of conversations I can have with people and gain trust. I'm a terrible small talker. But if you want to go in deep conversation, I'll meet you and I'll go all the way there. I’ll get deep with someone to understand them and see how their heart ticks. And so, I think these conversations have been pretty natural for me, because they speak more to how I like to relate to people.

I'm in a stage of parenthood where I've now developed a lot of parenting friends and so a lot of my conversation outside of work is just about motherhood. I think it's just been a natural progression that doesn't feel awkward, or really even that vulnerable, even when I talk about my insecurities with my daughter being an only child and trying to get over that regret or guilt or whatever, I think I feel some sort of relief even saying that out loud, because I feel like it just needs to go somewhere, rather than just stay in my head or in my heart.

It's a long answer to say it's been fairly therapeutic to do this podcast for me, and hopefully for those who have been our guests, and possibly for those who are listening.

SD: Along the lines of privacy, Cassidy and I share commonality. I think we're so exposed to criticism and ridicule and comments and things like that. We have very thick skin because of our line of work, what we've done, how we've done it, and how many people have opinions on those things that aren't always positive. I think we just refuse to expose what we cherish so much to some of that ridicule and negative response. But it doesn't stop us from telling these stories.

It's been therapeutic for me. I feel good when we finish these podcasts. When we get off of these calls, I don't know—it seems so simple, but I just feel good. I feel good in my spirit. I'm like, Yeah, like, I learned something today. I had a meaningful conversation with somebody today.

Have there been any stories from guests that have surprised or deeply affected you?

CH: Our episode with Lisa Leslie speaks a little to what Skylar was talking about. Lisa didn't have any resources and she decided to walk away from the game at the time that she started her family, so she kind of had to make that choice. When we think of Lisa, she represents excellence, visibility, Hall of Fame. I think hearing her discuss motherhood added an entirely different dimension to her story.

Kerri Walsh Jennings, she talked a lot about how her and her husband really struggled. They really had a hard time with their marriage. Allie LaForce, her story was actually very—I don't even know how to describe it, because her husband has a genetic disorder, and they don't know if her kids would have gotten it if she didn't use IVF. It was a whole journey of figuring out what they needed to do. Understanding that every family is different is a lesson that we take away from these conversations.

SD: ​​Dearica Hamby was an amazing conversation, just hearing her kind of tell her story, how she navigated—she is only the second woman in WNBA history to come back from multiple pregnancies and play; she didn't miss any games, didn't take a maternity leave. We had our kid at the same time. I took a year off. She played 40 games and appeared in every game. And just to hear her talk about her journey navigating what she had to go through with her last pregnancy, and being traded while pregnant, and kind of navigating her experiences there.

You're obviously speaking to women in sports. But what do you hope women and mothers who aren't athletes get out of the show?

CH: At the end of the day, I hope women listen to ANDMOM and feel less alone in the complexity in whatever it is that may be weighing heavy on their heart. The goal of this podcast is not perfection, right? It's basically recognition, allowing people to hear stories and say, Oh, you felt that too?

There's a lot of parenting podcasts out there trying to tell you how to do the right things for your kids. This podcast is kind of like, in that baby shower, you get all those gifts for the baby, right? This is that silk pajamas set for the mom. This is for the moms to have a little TLC.

SD: I cried a fistful of tears when I spilled my first bottle of breast milk. Like, a fistful of tears. That isn't sports-specific or athlete-specific. That breaks a lot of barriers and boxes, and even cultural mismatches. Mothers understand that.

For the most part, a lot of our stories are not specific to women in sport, but women in general; it's just human beings having conversations, and so I think that's relevant across the board, whether you think you want to become a mother, whether you are, whether you're a support mom, whether you're a guardian. It’s things for everybody that they can take away from the podcast. I think it's just through the lens of people that you don't necessarily get to hear that side all the time, and so that's what I think is refreshing.

This is the nipple cream, you know what I’m saying?